Hey everyone, I guess this can be sort of a forum. I just want everyone to explain their way with horses and comment on others’ ways and my way. I would also like to see opinions on natural horse remedies (e.g. chaste berry oil). You can comment on other people’s answers by editing yours, but please write EDIT: exactly like that. This is also to help people with horse training questions and for people with training problems. Please don’t talk about health problems except if you are talking about natural remedies.
Here’s my way:
"Do not conquer a horse’s soul, work with it". I do something called dancing with horses. Me and the horses think and move as one and really show "oneness". I train completely naturally but I also work with bits. I also use whips- I never hurt the horse with it, I only use it as an extension of my arm to help convey body language. You must reveal yourself to the horse if you want the horse to reveal itself to you. Once both horse and rider have revealed together they have stepped onto the same path of trust and understanding each other as equals. You must live in the moment, think with the horse, be completely open, have no lies, trust, be calm, be balanced, and be be strong. Horses are creatures of dignity and once you have taken it away you have killed the soul of that horse.
That is what I base my training off of. Horse training is communication through mental and physical openness, understanding, and equality.
I have just starting researching into natural remedies that I will use when training horses or working with them. I will also have some on hand like clove oil which numbs a horse. I know how to make them but I plan on buying essential oils. Believe it or not you can get pretty much any essential oils or seeds from amazon.com! I also have a local drug store that sells many. Here are some, they aren’t very accurate but say the main use:
Chasteberry oil: Balances hormones-helps with mares in heat
Clove oil: applied outside the body(only small amounts in mouth) and numb the horse
Basil Leaf : helps with digestion and killing internal worms as well as being a mild sedative and insect repellent.
Lavender: calming
Those are just a few, I can add more if people are interested. You can ask me any questions at: nature2horses@hotmail.com I’d be happy to help anyone with questions about training horses or developing a relationship with a horse.
as an equal, i didn’t mean I wasn’t the dominant one but that I treated the horse with respect. I am not against training aids but they should not be used to hurt a horse.
Just because your methods are different from someone else’s, doesn’t mean that your horses don’t behave properly. I’ve been told the same thing, and that person didn’t know what she was talking about either, when she said my horses are rude and dangerous.
My mare lets me sit on a bucket and put her foot in my lap to trim her hooves. I ride her with a flat halter, on trails and in traffic and ponying another horse. She asks politely if I have treats, and if the answer is ‘no’ or ‘yes, but not right now’, she accepts that.
I love the quote by Nancy Giles "There are enough ways in this world, for everyone to have her own."
You know what is working for you. Anyone who wants to have a respectful discussion, can gain a different insight by sharing ideas. I think that is what you intended when you posted this question/forum.
In general, I lean more toward your style of training than that of the big name clinicians who base their training on aggression and fear. I believe (know!) that you can achieve more and better results by reaching for understanding with a horse than by chasing and frightening it into submission. I tolerate no dangerous behavior, and I have no qualms with knocking the snot out of a horse that threatens me! Lacking overtly dangerous, threatening behavior, I try to figure out the reasons why it does what it does rather than just going on the warpath and threatening the horse with imminent predation.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say I want to be on equal footing with my horses – my ideal relationship is about 48/52, to my favor. I want my horses to know I am open to their opinions, but the final decision is mine. Some things I let them choose – which footing to walk on, sometimes which trail to take or whether we will walk or run, but it’s always my choice to offer them the choice, or not.
I don’t like starting the training relationship with a green horse, with the threat of attack. That is a place to go only if/when necessary, not a starting place. I usually start them in-hand, going for walks and some longeing. Walking at a horse’s side is a great way to establish leadership, communication, and trust. Walking down the street (I’m a suburban horsewoman), horse says: "OMIGOD, it’s a baby buggy!" me: "Yes, I see it. Now walk on. Now whoa, let’s look inside." By being on the ground *with* the horse, you can help it see that the monsters aren’t really monsters, that you are able to understand its fears and you won’t ask it to do anything that will hurt it, and that you are in control of the situation and the horse..
But of course, that doesn’t sell sticks and strings and DVDs, so you won’t see anyone doing it on RFD TV any time soon.
Keep true to what you know, and enjoy the relationship with your horses. There’s nothing better!
EDIT:
Herbal remedies have a lot more tradition behind them than modern drugs do. If a person does their research, commercially prepared herbs are quite safe. How many lawsuits are out there about FDA-approved drugs that wind up killing people?
Clove oil is an excellent pain relief medicine for human toothache, and it tastes much too strong to take enough for anyone to take a toxic dose. Some of the over the counter toothache remedies include clove oil in them, and I’ve used it straight, applied with a Q-tip.
Peppermint and spearmint oil are essential oils that are used to flavor candy, tea, and gum. I suppose they’re toxic in any dose too?
Some oils are toxic – that’s where doing research comes in.
February 25th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
I think you’re a hippie. My horse would LOVE you, she could walk all over you, you wouldn’t stand a chance… and she’d get to do whatever she wanted! Guarantee your pseudo-method would not work on my horse, or many other horses I’ve worked with.
Training should be a blend of all methods. There is no single method that will work for all horses, and as a trainer you need to remember that. My "method" is to get to know the horse, figure out what would work for that horse, then do that. For some horses that does involve whips or spurs or "mean" things (as an aid, not a crutch), for others it doesn’t.
Oh, and horse and human should NOT be equals. In the horse world, every horse has a rank in the herd… they don’t have equals, there is a clear first, second, third in rank, etc. If you are not above your horse in rank, you are below it, and then where do you wind up? You in the hospital and the horse on a double-decker to Mexico.
Watch a horse herd sometime… they don’t act like you, they have clear roles of dominance and submissiveness.
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 9:57 pm
That’s a wonderful training philosophy, but if I’ve learned anything I’ve learned that words mean nothing to a horse. As good as your philosophy sounds, I have concerns about whether you can be stern when you need to be. I’d have to see you ride and train a horse before I could even begin to judge whether your training methods work. At least I’d never worry that you’d abuse or frighten a horse. But do you have the skills needed to ride one well? I’m sorry, but it’s more than forming a bond or any of that "fuzzy" stuff.
A bond based on respect is important, but riding is also a physical skill and a trainer must be an athlete. The best riders have amazing control of their bodies, superb core strength, phenomenal coordination, etc. It’s one thing to sit on a horse and keep from interfering, but a good trainer improves the horse’s balance simply by the way they sit and carry their own body. I see people all the time who have a great loving relationship with their horses due to all the time they spend on groundwork training, but can’t ride at all. At best, they sit there very passively and the horse is happy. I’d be happy to let such a person ride my horse, but that’s not really training and I would not pay for that.
I’m NOT saying you are that type, only that beyond the kind and sensitive training philosophy you articulated, we have no way to evaluate whether you really can ride and train horses at all. I’d love to see some videos of you riding and working with horses. It’s certainly very kind of you to offer your time and advice to others who want to learn.
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 10:22 pm
in my experience with horses trained "naturally", they are usually the most problematic. in my opinion, and both our trainers’, horses should NEVER be treated as equals. this leads to really pushy horses. i had a gelding that we ended up selling because he was so dangerous. he was dangerous because when from the second he hit the ground, my dad’s ex wife (who bred to get him) messed with him everyday. he learned that pushing you with his head, just being a playful colt, was ok. he took that with him to adulthood. he would push you around like crazy and bite constantly. riding him was almost out of the question. you had to run him to death in the round pen before you could even think about getting on him. he was a nightmare and would fight you on everything. he would fight being tied, he would try to lead you, he would flip s*** when ridden. you have to show dominance. you have to make your horse respect you. this doesn’t mean they have to fear you. our horses respect our trainer without fear. we train keeping in mind how horses interact with each other in the wild. horses are physical with each other in the herd. if a horse bites another, the one bitten doesn’t say "oww that hurt please don’t do that" with a whinny. he bites or kicks back. you don’t have to treat a horse as an equal to achieve oneness. you just have to understand the horse’s personality, know what buttons to push, and what works vs what doesn’t. i’ve also never tried anything herbal with horses but you should be careful to make sure that they won’t cause any colic.
References :
family breeds, trains, and shows cutting horses
February 25th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
TOTALLY agree with Julie.
honestly, being friends with your horse is great, but just being friends with them isn’t teaching them respect.
Believe it or not, you can be tough on your horse but still be kind.
I love my horses to pieces and they love me too!! But their manners are impeccable
Without getting stern when i have to, i would have some extremely dangerous animals!!
I’m sorry, i do not quite understand WHAT the clove oil numbs, and WHY you want to numb it?
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 11:35 pm
The only thing I could comment on your training methods is that my mare would eat you alive.
Also, dealing with natural remedies can be more dangerous than using other, traditional medication, especially when all you are doing is spewing read information from the internet. Anyone can cite from a website but only a vet can reverse the damage.
No essential oils are ingested… EVER. They are toxic in very tiny doses. Whether you are "numbing" or "calming" a horse you are doing nothing more than masking the problem and not training the horse effectively. If you have to use herbs to train your horses then you are drugging them and not appreciating them for the animal they are.
References :
February 26th, 2010 at 12:06 am
Just because your methods are different from someone else’s, doesn’t mean that your horses don’t behave properly. I’ve been told the same thing, and that person didn’t know what she was talking about either, when she said my horses are rude and dangerous.
My mare lets me sit on a bucket and put her foot in my lap to trim her hooves. I ride her with a flat halter, on trails and in traffic and ponying another horse. She asks politely if I have treats, and if the answer is ‘no’ or ‘yes, but not right now’, she accepts that.
I love the quote by Nancy Giles "There are enough ways in this world, for everyone to have her own."
You know what is working for you. Anyone who wants to have a respectful discussion, can gain a different insight by sharing ideas. I think that is what you intended when you posted this question/forum.
In general, I lean more toward your style of training than that of the big name clinicians who base their training on aggression and fear. I believe (know!) that you can achieve more and better results by reaching for understanding with a horse than by chasing and frightening it into submission. I tolerate no dangerous behavior, and I have no qualms with knocking the snot out of a horse that threatens me! Lacking overtly dangerous, threatening behavior, I try to figure out the reasons why it does what it does rather than just going on the warpath and threatening the horse with imminent predation.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say I want to be on equal footing with my horses – my ideal relationship is about 48/52, to my favor. I want my horses to know I am open to their opinions, but the final decision is mine. Some things I let them choose – which footing to walk on, sometimes which trail to take or whether we will walk or run, but it’s always my choice to offer them the choice, or not.
I don’t like starting the training relationship with a green horse, with the threat of attack. That is a place to go only if/when necessary, not a starting place. I usually start them in-hand, going for walks and some longeing. Walking at a horse’s side is a great way to establish leadership, communication, and trust. Walking down the street (I’m a suburban horsewoman), horse says: "OMIGOD, it’s a baby buggy!" me: "Yes, I see it. Now walk on. Now whoa, let’s look inside." By being on the ground *with* the horse, you can help it see that the monsters aren’t really monsters, that you are able to understand its fears and you won’t ask it to do anything that will hurt it, and that you are in control of the situation and the horse..
But of course, that doesn’t sell sticks and strings and DVDs, so you won’t see anyone doing it on RFD TV any time soon.
Keep true to what you know, and enjoy the relationship with your horses. There’s nothing better!
EDIT:
Herbal remedies have a lot more tradition behind them than modern drugs do. If a person does their research, commercially prepared herbs are quite safe. How many lawsuits are out there about FDA-approved drugs that wind up killing people?
Clove oil is an excellent pain relief medicine for human toothache, and it tastes much too strong to take enough for anyone to take a toxic dose. Some of the over the counter toothache remedies include clove oil in them, and I’ve used it straight, applied with a Q-tip.
Peppermint and spearmint oil are essential oils that are used to flavor candy, tea, and gum. I suppose they’re toxic in any dose too?
Some oils are toxic – that’s where doing research comes in.
References :
36 years of figuring out how to get what I want from my horses with a minimum of fuss and stress, for both the horse and myself.
February 26th, 2010 at 12:23 am
After reading this I feel like I have entered the twilight zone…. hippie style.
You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension – a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You’re moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You’ve just crossed over into the Twilight Zone.
References :
do do do do do do do do do (to the theme song for the twilight zone)
February 26th, 2010 at 12:37 am
I just want to point out that the word "natural" and the term "natural horsemanship" are completely and totally misleading. Every single thing you do with a horse from the moment you put it behind a fence is unnatural. I care how much you stare at subtle movements and whisper sweet nothing in your horse’s ears, it’s not natural. It might be "nice" but it sure isn’t natural.
That said, I would not let you train my horse. But, I wouldn’t let anyone train my horse, I do it myself because I don’t trust other people with my horse.
Would I recommend you to someone else? Probably not. You sounds too passive. if presented with a situation where a horse truly needs a leader, and not a friend, I’m not sure I could trust you to be that leader.
"Dancing with horses"? What is that? What exactly do you do? You didn’t really explain HOW you accomplish things, you just explained your goals of companionship. This seemed like more of a mission statement than a procedure.
I really don’t think you can kill the soul of a horse…. I have seen some pretty beat up horses that you would probably label as a "killed soul." Every horse I’ve seen like that perks right up with a little love. So i completely disagree with your theory of a a horse with a "killed soul." I think any horse can benefit from some love, but I refuse to believe that any living creature is ever permanently damaged.
I think there needs to be a balance between friendship and leadership with a horse. I don’t think anyone should be a dictator to the horse and treat it like a machine, but I also don’t think the horse should be treated like a 2 year old human. Respect should be prevalent for both horse and handler. Respect is reached through leadership.
I’m not saying that bonding is bad, I mean, my horse is my best friend and I love him like family. But he knows where the boundary is and so do I. He walks all over my mom when she tries to do anything with him, but when he’s with me, he knows I won’t tolerate that.
I don’t know, whatever tickles your fancy I guess. I don’t think your way is the be all end all of horse training, it’s just another theory.
EDIT:: You should definitely be a writer though if the whole training thing doesn’t work out.
References :